People are so mean!!!

[Ellenfreak]

I was at work today, I work in a grocery store trying to work my way thro college.. But anyhoo......This women come thro my line, she was wearing baggy clothes and she had an buzz cut.
Well ppl were starring and laughing at her...and talking about her..can't say all that they were saying or I will get booted....but I wanted to do something, but I couldn't.....If I would have stepped up and said something I would have lost my job...the place I work at don't get alone to well with gay/lesbian either, so if I would have said something, that would have "outed" me, and probably caused me to lose my job also (it's not that my job hates us, it's the people that I work with that don't agree with it)..I would have been forced to quit....Do ya'll think I was in the wrong for not stepping up? Or what should I do if the type of thing happens? (again)

[puppdog88]

A similar thing happens to me, but at school. I had this history teacher last year who is rumoured to be a lesbian. She is THE nicest person (I've gotten to be friends with her) and also a great teacher. However, I go to a rather conservative school FULL of homophobic people. Needless to say, she gets a whole bunch of teasing, some of which I also can't say here appropriately. I feel really bad every time that happens and I desperately want to stand up for her. However his is impossible to do in front of a bunch of homophobic teenaged jerks without them accusing me of being in love with her or something. It really sucks.

As for your problem, I'd say follow your heart- that sounds corny, but really just do what you feel is right at the time. If you think your jobs depends on it, and you're in college (low budget) I'd make sure you can get a new job first before trying to be heroic. The teasing may suck (for all of the gay community in fact) but it would suck more for you to not have money to eat or have any fun. We'll survive the namecalling by just knowing that it's best to be who we are (something that my history teacher told me to always do). I wish you the best of luck in your job, and I hope that this in fact DOES NOT happen to you again.

[mafamba]

Well, I think that nobody should have to endanger themselves or their jobs. Nobody has to out themselves when they are still too scared of the possible consequences.

Maybe there will be a time that you are less scared, but if that is not now, or not happening at all, then nobody has the right to blame you for that. And you shouldn't either.

Still, you feel very uncomfortable about not being able to step in. And that is very understandable as well.

Maybe we can try and think of ways to help you with that uncomfortablenes in some way. You know, for future's reference.

Hmmm. What comes to mind on this short notice is maybe give a sign of "understanding" to the bullied person. Just a friendly smile maybe. Or rolling your eyes. You know, so that it's not too obvious to others, but just that she can see it. Or saying "sorry 'bout that" to her, softly, so that only she can hear it (for instance when you give her her change back. You could lean over a bit).
Only you shouldn't blame yourself if the situation is such that you can't do even display some kindness in this way. Sometime it's possible, and sometimes it's not.

Stuff like that. It might give you the feeling that you weren't completely emptyhanded in the situation.


It's late and at the moment I can't really think of anything else. But maybe others can jump in with their ideas.

[mafamba]

As for you puppydog, you are even in a "better" position. Your teacher being a friend and all. Then surely the possibility will arise at some stage that you can TELL her that you hate all that name calling and stuff.


You know to both of ya now,
In the old days people called me names a lot too. And in a way it only made me stronger. Not that it was nice. But it made me more - how shall I put it - millitant, proud? Well i found more and more ways to defend myself.
You know. Sticks and stones....... etc.

But in my younger years I even did things to call it upon myself more. I dressed differently from most people (baggy pants, tough leather motor jacket). At one time I even shaved my head bald. Of course, calling more attention to myself and my being different really had them going at me even more.
But, looking back, I think I did it for a reason. After a while I started to feel the strenth of pride in being different. And the more they called me names, the more I was like: "HA!! Whatever." Finding them pathetic. And I'd just give them the raised eyebrow. Or, if they'd really start to wanting to provoke me, I would give them stuff like: "gee." in the way of "oh reaeaeally."
making them stand with a mouth full of teeth, as we would say in Dutch (meaning they would have no responce).
I found fun and strenth in doing the oposite of what people expected me to do in such a case.
They hope that you will get defensive and angry. but when you don't do that, and even handle the situation with some humor, they go like; "huh??"


So, don't underestimate your baggy pants lady and your teacher either. They may have already also found that pride inside of them. Without feeling the need to do anything about the provokations aimed at them. When you've got it, you are not vulnerable.

[ulsoccer]

I think the pride you talk about mafamba is really cool. I'm not even out yet, so when i hear people being rude i want to speak up and of course, the immediate reaction is "are you a lesbian" and my immediate reaction is "no". Hopefully the people being put down for being different have this pride and strength to not care.

[mafamba]

Hey ulsoccer,

Ok, now I'm really on a role.
You know, your emmediate "no" to their question is understandable. Don't blame yourself for that either. But i know it makes you feel awfull having to lie. It was great to stand up against the rudness. You can give yourself a lot of points for that. Or for having wanted to do that.

You know there are ways to not having to lie and yet still respond to their question. There are teqniques for that.
A very good way for instance is to respond with a counter question.
Like maybe: "Now what on earth makes you say THAT." And and then saying it with face that says "man, how stupid can one GET." (THAT you don't say out loud of course). Or with a face that is completely bewildered. As if you didn't know what he was refering to.

You know, the intention of responding in such a way is to cause confusion. So that they now don't know wether they have offended you or not offended you. And/or maybe offended you because you are NOT a lesbian, or because you are.
And of course you won't let them in on that.
The intention is that you keep 'em hanging there.

Part of the tric is to make this a game for yourself. If it's a game for you, the oponent and what he stands for will feel a lot less threatening to you.

Part of the tecnique also is to NEVER let yourself be drawn into a discussion about yourself (unless you are sure you can talk reason into someone, or unless they take you seriously as a person).
They should never have the oportunity to pick out words and then squash you with them. Making you feel all small again.

You can do wonders with the raised eyebrow. The counter questions are great.
Him: "are YOU, a lesbian?" You: "Are YOU crazy?" And then walk away.
Or getting into a laughing fit can help, while repeating their question).
(Like: "HA HA HA, am I a lesbian....." And then walk away. (well, that one might be tricky, as you probably don't feel like laughing).

And another tric is repeating what you just said before. Whatever they say, you keep on saying the same thing you just said all over again.

So, they were rude to someone. You tell them to stop. They ask you now if YOU are a lesbian. You answer: "I just hate people being rude is all." (or you can even add: "I'VE been brought up well") and you walk away.
He (wanting to get you into a discussion): "What do you mean by that?"
You: "I mean, that wellbehaved people are not rude."
He (again): "No, what do you MEAN."
You: "oh let it go already ok."
End discusion.
(You will not have given yourself away, and even kicked him one in the butt putting more attention on his having been rude. And he can't get in a word edgewise, because you will just keep on repeating yourself)
If he keeps at it though, you keep on repeating. (And/or you roll your eyes, shake your head and sigh.)
He: "you ARE a lesbian aren't you" You (raised eybrow): "you are being rude AGAIN aren't you."
(for him that may sound like you don't like lesbians either. Yet that is not what you said and meant. You just meant it is rude to provoke someone. Put the point is to let him hang in thin air and be confused).

Or if they keep on coming back anyway.
He: "aw, common you are a dyke. otherwise you would respond." You (now putting up your friendliest smile, but still with raised eyebrow) :"Are we getting a bit carried away with our fantasies then?"
(that's my favorite up to now. You could even start out with that one. For it's most probably true as wel. :lol: :lol: It might put an end to the discusion right away)

At a certain point they WILL get tired. Or too confused.

All these trics can give you some more space. In standing up for sombody else, without necessarily having to compromise yourself.

But they work in all kinds of situations you feel uncomfortable having to respond. Not only in gay issues of course.

But it does take some practice though. For you to get the body language right.
I do it al the time with one of my friends. One playing the oponent (with all the body language and words that goes with it that makes you scared as well) and the other coming up with the fun stuff. For it's fun coming up with ideas. And in your imagination you let THEM be the ones looking like complete idiots (hope that word is allowed on this board).
All of that practising of course accompanied by a nice beer or other beverage.

You know, my friend and I usually do that AFTER we we have been in a situation were we thought we didn't handle ourselves very well (for yes, that still happens to me too). But the shere knowledge that there ARE trics for a next time, gives a feeling of empowerment.
You know, most empowerment for me I discovered while being playful about my vulnerabilities in a safe surroundings.

If you don't have friends you think you can do that with, we could try it here. Coming up with the ideas. And you practice in front of the mirror. But then you'd have to play both the roles yourself. :D

PS. ulsoccer. I read the "Gay" thread as well, and I realise that the person you are refering to might be your dad. So, of course, then this post doesn't really aplly. But it might be helpful, at some stage, in other situations.

[Maguyver]

mafamba---wow---good suggestions, well thought out. I'm sure a lot of us will use them! That's just the kind of stuff I can use in the future :) Thanks

Here's another thought that crossed my mind, it seems terrible that these terrific sugestions come from the need to have responses to people.... which means you've gone through that, and had to deal with it, which really sucks. Anyway, good for you for being a strong person and sticking to your true self!

[ulsoccer]

Thanks a lot mafamba! Those are really good suggestions. I like the fantasies one too. I do get these questions about my sexuality a lot, not because I come off that way, but because i have a lot to say in that area. I'll definately use some of those.
You're right, my dad does say a lot of homophobic things, but i usually don't respond. Thanks again.

[Shorty85]

Well I think you shouldn't get involed if it dosen't affect you. If it will cause you to get fired for saying stuff or steeping you should just stay out of it and let people be mean and ignore it.

[JetGrrl]

Part of the tecnique also is to NEVER let yourself be drawn into a discussion about yourself (unless you are sure you can talk reason into someone, or unless they take you seriously as a person).
Yep, I think as a part of the guilt most of us carry at some stage makes us a little defencive and we feel the need to justify ourselves, when really it is not about us. What you're objecting to is their rudeness, just as you would to someone who was making fun of someone being fat or black or asian or who has bad hair or acne etc etc.

I always like "Since when were you crowned King Jackass?" and "Whats the bug up your ass?"

So, they were rude to someone. You tell them to stop. They ask you now if YOU are a lesbian. You answer: "I just hate people being rude is all." (or you can even add: "I'VE been brought up well") and you walk away.
He (wanting to get you into a discussion): "What do you mean by that?"
You: "I mean, that wellbehaved people are not rude."
He (again): "No, what do you MEAN."
You: "oh let it go already ok."
End discusion.
Yep that's a great argument. Keep the focus on them. "Oh you would so love for me to say I am so you could be rude to me too, wouldn't you!" is another. Head-shaking and sighing, with a little eye rolling thrown in also helps - make *them* feel unjustified and ridiculed.[/quote]

[mafamba]

I always like "Since when were you crowned King Jackass?" and "Whats the bug up your ass?"

**chuckle**

[ulsoccer]

I always like "Since when were you crowned King Jackass?" and "Whats the bug up your ass?"

**chuckle**

Between the 'fantasies' line and the 'king jackass' line, i've got my bases covered. My ammo is ready, i'm locked and loaded, i'm.....oh sorry, having an Ellen moment there. :oops: :wink: